tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6058072377999486184.post7953861428040392377..comments2023-12-29T18:13:21.495-06:00Comments on pink scare: Michael Hardt on "Revolution and Identity Politics"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6058072377999486184.post-17891450924521819342008-11-19T19:37:00.000-06:002008-11-19T19:37:00.000-06:00I never thought for a moment you weren't sympathet...I never thought for a moment you weren't sympathetic to the endeavor! I was only re-stating my own interest in seeing the project succeed. In fact, I posted mostly thinking that you would find this stuff really interesting. <BR/><BR/>I'm interested in thinking through it more, so hopefully this is just getting a thread of thought off the ground for us (and whomever else might be interested besides the pink-scare cadre).thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05268192967377248928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6058072377999486184.post-79392947827450993132008-11-19T14:10:00.000-06:002008-11-19T14:10:00.000-06:00I hope I didn't give the impression that I wasn't ...I hope I didn't give the impression that I wasn't asking sympathetic questions as well. The gap between revolutionary politics and identity politics has long been deeply unsettling to me, and hard's endeavor was really exciting for me to read about. <BR/><BR/>Anyway, I'm rethinking what I said about mourning the loss of identity...a lot...points taken.Arvillahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02966511261153415467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6058072377999486184.post-33456366304494267672008-11-19T12:29:00.000-06:002008-11-19T12:29:00.000-06:00"I guess my question to Hardt would be, to whom ex..."I guess my question to Hardt would be, to whom exactly would the loss of oppressive structures be painful?"<BR/><BR/>I think you might underestimate how entrenched our sense of who we are is, and how much we have invested in it. I don't think he's saying the payoff (throwing off oppression) isn't worth it. He's advocating this kind of revolutionary transformation, after all. Nevertheless, he's saying the process won't be easy: if it were, we should be suspicious of its emancipatory potential. <BR/><BR/>Withdrawing from dominant institutions, like gender for instance, isn't so simple. Suppose you think of yourself as straight. Do you think it would be easy to suddenly, in the span of a few hours, abdicate that identity and re-conceive of yourself otherwise? Coming out to one's parents, friends, etc. can be an extremely violent process... many people understandably avoid it for their entire lives. That it is painful and violent is not therefore an argument against doing it, however. It is just to admit that wresting oneself free from dominant, determining institutions around which we conceive of ourselves and in relation to which our identities are formed, is a difficult process. It requires that lose ourselves... which is scary. What would be left if we did that, someone might think. It's no argument against doing it, but its an admission that the process is an arduous one. <BR/><BR/>Hardt joked in his talk that people would say to him "Hey, mike, you're not going to win any converts to the cause by telling people that". <BR/><BR/>About the 'multitude' and 'singularity' stuff...i really just dont know what that stuff is about. I haven't read Multitude or really any of Negri's stuff. That's not to judge its worth, I'm just saying I dont know. <BR/><BR/>I thought the talk was really interesting... and everything critical I posed is in a sympathetic spirit: I want this kind of attempt to work.thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05268192967377248928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6058072377999486184.post-34961376045380563662008-11-18T14:26:00.000-06:002008-11-18T14:26:00.000-06:00Along the lines of that last thought, I'm still th...Along the lines of that last thought, I'm still thinking about what Hardt considers to be a painful process...the destruction of an identity. He compares it to coming out of the closet, the admission that you not the straight person people assumed you were. <BR/><BR/>But if the significance or meaning of the straight identity were gone (which consists solely of signifying belonging to one spot on the hegemonic totem pole, or of resisting that spot on the totem pole, at least from the revolutionary perspective), would we really mourn its loss? If we reach a point where we shed heterosexism, what loss would it be to lose your heterosexual identity? So Hardt is suggesting that the very shedding of heterosexism, or the process which gives it power, is what would be painful. I guess my question to Hardt would be, to whom exactly would the loss of oppressive structures be painful? <BR/><BR/>I'm thinking about my relationship to my own womanhood for example. I embrace it and like it in a "girl power" kind of way. But I wouldn't give two fucks about being a woman or thinking it had some special power if I didn't think it also made me a part of a resistance effort within a patriarchal structure. So if that identity were to disappear, as long as the patriarchy disappeared with it, I'd celebrate. On the flip side, I can't imagine a guy seriously attached to his masculine identity if it weren't for the perceived privileges it brings him in a patriarchal society. The loss of power, he may mourn. But the identity itself? I just...I'm not buying it.Arvillahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02966511261153415467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6058072377999486184.post-86731486733468241352008-11-18T13:24:00.000-06:002008-11-18T13:24:00.000-06:00What a thought provoking post. Obviously there's m...What a thought provoking post. Obviously there's much to discuss further here. Can you first explain a little more about your last paragraph? I'm not familiar with the concepts of "singularity" and "multitude," so I'm not sure what they're supposed to suggest about recognizing and grappling with material conditions or with overcoming dialectical understandings of subject/structure (I'm actually not sure which of the two you meant to link the concepts to).<BR/><BR/>With that as an aside, however, I have to say I think his re-envisioning of the identity politics vs. revolutionary politics, though it seems to be in its infant stages, is really, really refreshing. I'm not completely convinced exactly, and like you, want to do some critical engaging with it. But I really appreciate the ambition here. The subject is always rife with chances to disparage any number of movements, and it takes a pretty brave person to delve into it.<BR/><BR/>As to your point about making revolution an entirely "negative" endeavor, of liberating a subject from her identity (or from the hierarchies associated with her identity?), by abolishing said identity/identity-hierarchy--what's so wrong with having a negative revolution, a revolution of destruction? I mean, I know our instinct is to think something is only good if it constructs something rather merely tearing something down, but if in fact it is these social processes of racialization and gendering, and heterosexualizing, and classing, which lead to hegemony, what's so wrong with simply eliminating them and not concerning ourselves with much of anything else? <BR/><BR/>I mean, I guess then we are tempted to get into some degree of utopianism, or visionary feminism, where we want to imagine what society could possibly look like without those structures. But what if we just didn't do it? What if we didn't try to envision it? I mean, if those structures were eliminated...would anything else need to be put in their place? If the processes in question are defined and eliminated with precision, this doesn't suggest we would necessarily wind up in anarchism, does it? I guess I just can't understand the obsession with positives. Revolutions of creation shouldn't be the goal. I mean, what is their value unless we know what we want to create, or there is actually anything which necessitates creation. What exactly, in any substantive rather than representative way, would be the problem with a solely negative conception of revolution?Arvillahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02966511261153415467noreply@blogger.com